Oral History with Jae de la Mora, March 8, 2021 (Ms2021-023)

Jessica Taylor: Hello. Today is March 8th, 2021. It's a Monday. My name is Jessica Taylor. I'm interviewing Jae-Jae de la Mora for the Voces Oral History Center at the University of Texas at Austin. Please know Ms. de la Mora that this recorded interview will be placed in the Nettie Lee Benson Latin American Collection at UT Austin, and it may be available online via YouTube or a similar platform. If there's anything you do not wish to answer or talk about, especially given that your recording may appear online, I will honor your wishes. Also, if there's something you want to talk about, please bring it up and we'll talk about it. Because we are not conducting this interview in person. I need to record you consenting. So, I'll ask you a series of five questions. Please say "yes, I agree" or "no, I do not agree" after each one. There are three questions we need to make sure you agree to before we go on. Voces' wishes 1:00to archive your interview along with any other photographs or documentation at the Benson Library at UT Austin. You will retain the copyright of the interview and any other materials you donate to Voces. Number one: Do you give Voces consent to archive your interview and your materials at the Benson library? Ma'am? I think it's frozen. Jae? Oh, no. [whispering] Ah shoot.

Jae de la Mora: I'm sorry. [laughter]

Jessica: It's okay.

Jae: I didn't even know what happen. I didn't even know what happened. [laughter]

Jessica: That's okay. It's alright. Can you see me?

Jae: I can see you and I'm rejoined. I don't know what happened.

Jessica: It said you had bad signal.

Jae: Um you just went like this [inaudible] and then didn't move and then I didn't know what happened. [laughter]

Jessica: Um I'm going to just did you hear what I had asked?

Jae: Yeah. That I want to answer a couple of questions and because we're not in person, I have to be clear and say "yes, I agree."

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. So here's the first one: Do you give Voces as consent to archive your interview and your materials at the Benson library?

Jae: Yes.

Jessica: Okay.

Jae: I agree.

Jessica: Do you grant Voces copyright over the interview and any material you provide?

Jae: Yes, I agree.

Jessica: Do you agree to allow us to post this interview on the internet where it may be viewed by people around the world? [laughter]

Jae: Yes, I agree.

Jessica: Um we have many questions and a pre-interview form [laughter] that you've already filled out. We use that information from the pre-interview form to help in research. The entire form is in a secure Voces server. Before we send it to the Benson, we would have stripped out any contact information for yourself or family members. So that will not be part of your public file.

Jae: [Sigh] Okay, then we're fine.

Jessica: Well hold on. There's more wait.

Jae: Okay I wait.

Jessica: Okay. [Laughter] Your public file will only be accessible at the Benson Library. Do you wish for us to share the rest of your interview in your public fi- file available to researchers at the Benson?

Jae: Yes, I agree.

Jessica: Okay. On occasion Voces receives requests from journalists who wish to contact our interview subjects. We only deal with legitimate news outlets. Do you give consent for us to share your phone numbers or your email with journalists?

Jae: Do I get to pick? Can it be be like just email?

Jessica: Um you want to say just email?

Jae: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. I will um I will make a note of that and send it to the to the guy.

Jae: Thank you.

Jessica: Yeah. Here. Let me um- let me write that down. Alright um so uh let's let's go ahead and um get started then. Um so can you tell me a little bit just generally about your experiences with COVID-19?

Jae: Well, I-I am Mexican and last year I was in the process of getting my green card. So that means a lot of last phase documentation and I did a lot of 5:00traveling to Norfolk and Richmond. And all this happen around the end of February and the beginning of March. I'm talking about like probably twice a week I have to go to Norfolk or Richmond So I was really everywhere and also immigration doctors which were down in Martinsville. Yes Martinsville, somewhere around there. I don't remember. And um I had heard about COVID and COVID was already in the United States. But I was the only nut bag ready with the hand sanitizer and the mask. Nobody else was concerned or anything else. And and then uh my last trip I came back around March. It was March twelfth or something. And I started getting sick. Like within one night I had flu symptoms. I mean I went from zero to a hundred. So I was like, uh-huh. And I started contacting the 6:00health department here, the hotline, and it was a voicemail [chuckle]. And I it was like about for three days that happened. And so then I started contacting I mean, I tried the NIH, I tried everything. And it was just hours and hours of waiting. And then when I finally will get through something It was a recording, hotlines... I even called the CDC and it was a hotline as well. I called the hospital here in Radford Carilion. And they will put me through into the ER. And then after waiting for like an hour, it will hang up the phone or send me to a voicemail. So after three days, of feeling worse and worse, and you know I'm a single mom of two, I'm worried. I don't know like what's happening. And I-I was 7:00deteriorating fast. So I-I messaged the mayor on-on Facebook, you know, David Horton. And he was like we, you know, this is a new kind of thing. We don't know what's happening. We don't even have proper procedure. And we're being flooded by all kinds of questions from everywhere. So uh let's try the police. And I messaged the police, the Radford police through Messenger and I was like "Nobody can answer. What what do I do? Do I go out? Do I- Do I I just have the flu?" I mean I had the-the vaccination and I know you can get the flu even with vaccination. But I mean, I was at the worst point where I've had the flu without vaccination in three days. So they say, okay, call the EMS because they tell they told me to call the health department then Carilion and everything that I 8:00have already done. So I called the fire station and they were like "well, we can take you to the hospital. We can come check you." And, you know, I said "I can go." I mean, I don't need to waste money or nobody else's time and I don't want to expose anyone unnecessarily. So I went the next day in the morning with the kids. Like everybody with masks I got, you know, they were they were people outside of the ER. And um once I got in there, the nurse refused to give me a test. She told me that I could sit the whole day in the ER. But that the tests were were going to be given just to really sick people. And people in the ER and ER was empty like I walked in and there was not even one person and they made us wait and all of this with the nurse. It was another hour and a half that I was with her when I came back out. The ER was still empty So like all the throngs of 9:00people that we're going to need the tests. I don't know where they were. So she thought that me being in every single hotspot that had already the virus in federal buildings. with lots of immigrants and attorneys, that came from all over the state, uh through the last three weeks. Didn't warrant for tests. So I came back home and then I proceeded to be sick for the next month. Um I made like a little trash thing out of my house because I did not want to infect my children. And they had the sniffles, but I have like I had about ten days of 104 fever, all while coughing. And then I had it was until about twenty- twenty-five days of coughing. Ferociously coughing, like sometimes not making to the 10:00bathroom coughing. Like it was horrible. I haven't ever had spasms in my abs. I didn't know I had abs. You know? It was just an and so I didn't know if a had it or not. But by the symptoms and all the shelf after effects that I've had through the months afterwards, everybody believes that I had COVID and I took the precau-precautions that I don't know my instincts or like human decency told me to. So from the moment I came back that day from the ER we quarantined and I've ordered online at Walmart, I had a sign on my door that we're quarantining. Um I don't know things that I assume I was supposed to do and do my part as a human being. Even though I was really sick and, you know, as a single mom, my 11:00children, depending on me. Thank goodness because we've struggled financially. So I'm the type of person that buys every month uh toilet paper a little bit and a little bit of canned food or so I didn't need anything while I was sick, but I never foresee to be sick. So I didn't have prepared food, you know, while I was laying down. So that was a bit of a challenge, asking for help and allowing people to shop because I wanted no one in my home. I mean in good conscience I-I couldn't say "well, I don't know. They didn't test me. Yes. Come on over, help me." So and I-I didn't know how contagious this was, so I didn't even want people on my porch. Like when I knew I had something delivered, I would like I was really exhausted, so I would sit myself in my in my office chair that has wheels. I wheel myself to the door. and then in the door I will try to spray with bleach or whatever. So everybody was safe So that was like the first month 12:00and a half with COVID and and having my kids. It was it was challenging. I'm not going to lie was it was really challenging. Challenging for her for I for both of them because I-I got um shower curtains. I hung them everywhere separating each room. And I move the kids right outside my bedroom, which is my the living room. So they could be near me, but we could be separated because the poor things they will come to my door and say "Mommy, can we have a hug?" And of course I wouldn't give them a hug, but I didn't want them dead or really sick. So I'm a little [inaudible] that no matter why [inaudible] and as soon as I would take a shower I go see them cook. uh how much I love them, you know? Coughing or something. I will go back to my room and we wore masks. We wore like 13:00I don't know. I made up my own triage and little clinic in here to try to keep everybody safe and my children were my first concern and, you know, the nurse's words still ringing in my ear saying "Well, children don't get it. You have nothing to worry about." She was so nonchalant. So I don't know. I mean, the only thing she told me was like if I couldn't breathe and I needed it to be put on a ventilator to call 911 uh but call the ER ahead of time. So like I've been calling and so then she went off and she was like "well its people like you that keep clogging the lines." So it was like okay. And through all this, I mean, I messaged the mayor to let them know what was what was happening. He was appalled. I mean, he was like he was appalled and uh he was very nice. I am not 14:00a fan of his. And he was like "what do you need? Do I send uh take out food to your house?" I mean him and plenty of others were communicating with me and making sure that I was, you know, I had contact with outside world or checking in on me. So that made it bearable, but it was a very scary and isolating experience and by accident I was able to connect with several residents of the town that went through exactly the same thing sadly. Uh so and three of them were students who went back home sick. And they were tested back home and they all tested positive. So they did all the traveling and all that, you know? It was it was very scary. I was very resentful and angry for a while [chuckle] But I did my part and I think that's the best thing you can do when you don't like 15:00somebody's response, you just do the best you can and you do the right thing. So that's what we did. So we've masked, we've hand sanitizers. Now that we have more strains. We double mask. My kids are they only nuts that go to school with double mask, but I don't care. So that has been my experience um... My other experience, we have been trying to drop off food at the local pantry constantly. At least every time that I order groceries, I order extra. And we'll put a drop off that stock. We check on the neighbors. Um I used to volunteer here, at the Asylum Seekers in Floyd. But uh I started having medical issues and then still working I-I just started being afraid of having contact. So I sort of scale back 16:00my involvement to just English classes that were outside. And then one of the volunteers tested positive. So then I-I we were- got all scared. It was like massive panic for Tera for me, for my children, for all volunteers for the asylum seekers themselves. So after that they didn't do more English classes and I sort of had to scale back because I started having uh medical issues that nobody knew what was happening. But it was similar symptoms that everybody else, which is inflammation of the pancreas and scarring in the lungs. I have issues with my heart rate, even though I don't have high blood pressure. I have issues with my glucose, even though I'm not diabetic like even by my doctor's words, it was it was it will be easier. We had high blood pressure and diabetes, because I would know how to treat you. So suddenly I found myself calling 911 because I 17:00was having chest problems and having low blood pressure or high heart rate and just no medical diagnosis but really scary symptoms and um and huge medical bills because there's not a record of me having COVID-19 test. So my insurance is like well, you're just going for fun. So that that experience, that little experience in Carilion has had a lot of aftermath. Uh but on the other side of me and my children, I have had a blast. We were so resistant to go back to school because I don't know. I mean sometimes we would do school next to the river, sometimes in the playground, sometimes at Radford Coffee Company at seven in the morning. Uh we've traveled all over, just camping, hiking, everywhere 18:00that is not like there is no people. My son the other day, he said that he was really grateful for COVID-19. He say he said it's a tragedy that people are dying. What I think families are together all the time and I realize that that is really not everybody's experience at all. But I was very glad him and my daughter had that. I said okay. At least they don't feel like their mom went crazy or or neurotic or completely afraid. And I I feel like I'm very transparent and I gave my children doses of reality adapted to their little minds as to not scared them. So they know, they know how COVID has politicized, you know? We we scream prayed cried after November sixth for two weeks and then 19:00we scream and holler and threw a Fourth of July style party when we received the results. And and so I'm very grateful that they, their takeaway of COVID has been that. I mean we still meet friends. I mean I've had many driveway visitors. And the time when the time is to say goodbye. We all cry. I haven't had yet a friend that doesn't say goodbye and we don't cry when they leave, you know? We were like like, uh I want to hug you. Uh I want to hug you. But it has been very it has been a blessing to have like-minded friends that don't make it more difficult or then put us in a situation where we have to make a choice to cut relationships just because they're not adhering to science. Um I have been try 20:00trying to, whenever I see posts about COVID in groups, I tried to translate them to anyone that doesn't speak Spanish. I cannot imagine as someone who experienced what I believe was COVID, in the early stages, and experienced a lot of isolation because of one nurse's ignorance. I can't imagine how scary would it be facing all the information that we've had, all the misinformation that we had, all the threads, all of the helpful advice in another language. Like it it just it makes me tear up just thinking about it. And um so I'm trying to be vigilant about it. And if anybody reaches out or needs help, like I probably say yes most of the time. I mean I've had families show up here, my porch, you know, 21:00like, we don't have anywhere to go. And while I'm struggling with my health, afraid of COVID. And it has been very interesting and but it has been to show also the resilience of many others who are willing to help. So that's basically how I've experienced COVID.

Jessica: Um of the things that I was going to ask you about is been how you build those networks in such a short amount of time? Like since you have like had to, like especially traveling so much before the pandemic, and like having to sort out your own business. Like who, who are the people that are dropping off food at your house? And like who are the people that you're helping when you show up?

Jae: Well, we moved from McCoy in 2015 leaving that violent relationship and Radford has been our haven. I mean, I lived in a woman shelter for five months 22:00because I did not have a social security number and there was no where to find help even though both of my kids are citizens. There was no housing for them, no food stamps for them, nothing for them because of me. So after living five-year five months in there, uh we moved to their transitional housing program for two years. And I started taking care of my situation there, like uh thank goodness we find resources in Northern Virginia to help me straighten that out because of what we were going through I qualified. So in the meantime, I had to build relationship here. I mean I will everyone that I had in Blacksburg... people get very, very scared when things explode in a family. So they were not necessarily on his side, but everyone disappeared. So um here we were the people that had 23:00police escort to school or they had police escorted the school bus or had caused a lockdown. So [chuckle] we weren't exactly magnetic friends here. But the the few that were not scared. Uh I don't know. When you form relationships through fire, they are very strong. Plus I'm I'm in recovery. I'm in recovery for twelve years. So several friends from the meetings that I used to go stayed in contact. Mostly women that have gone through the same thing. And after having so much involvement with the Women's Resource Center here, some of the people that were staff or therapists have become friends. And being Radford is just I mean, you 24:00wrote the type of relationships where I cannot go pick up my son from school, a teacher will bring him home. Uh I don't ha- I cannot make soccer or whatever, the owner of the gym where my kids took jiu jitsu will take them to soccer. I mean it's it's Radford I have found in Radford a haven of... there is definitely no wealth in Radford, but there's a lot of will. Other will to help to love even when you're not the nicest person, the kindest person. is like "okay going we're going to help you." And and and um so that's how I build my relationships here and in in Radford though I also used to volunteer when I lived in McCoy. So some of those relationships, you know, they move you through the New River Valley. So I kept those relationships. It was [inaudible] and I see [inaudible] a section 25:00[inaudible] [inaudible] from one [inaudible] but um That's what you need to do. You know sometimes you're helping those who need to be helped and there is no shame it, you know, in any kind of way. So that's how I build my networks. And people come in here asking for help um as much as I'm grateful to certain organization that have helped me. They don't- they are not- some of them very kind when it comes to foreigners. Uh and even so even in the ranks, there is allies. There's always allies. So sort of in the down low, I will be put in contact with these people like can you help can you do something about it to 26:00somebody else? And well the majority of my friends are why they're raisins in the milk, you know? Always, everywhere. But um little by little you start getting to know people and then more glasses of milk, no more raisins. The voices are getting together and it's just wonderful and you start weaving a basket that is more women than net. So in the down low here and there I hear from people that need help or um and then I get in contact with them. And what do you need? And and give my phone number and sometimes they reach out and sometimes they don't. This woman was in transitional housing. She did in her time and it was time for her to move out. And this organization was not very friendly for her to stay through the pandemic. So in the middle of it uh they ship her half across the country because she said she had a friend in Las Vegas. 27:00And they just bought her her stuff and sent her with their children. And and it was not that big of a friend. And she worked to get her tickets and move back and she showed up one day. Like literally she was like "What are you doing?" I'm like "I'm watching TV." "Can you come out to the porch?" [laugh] And it was with her with her three children. So you hit the ground running [snapping] and start making phone calls and uh I immediately pull my children in the back of my house, you know, and I allow them to obviously to use the bathroom. I got food out blah, blah, blah. But we were here on the porch. I turn on my truck, turn the heat on and and "come in here. We'll figure out. I'll take you somewhere." And, you know, the friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend could put them in a hotel for a certain time. So we did that and then another 28:00organization will say "we can help them" and you know... So for me that's Radford in a nutshell and has been.

Jessica: That that's wonderful. When you were transitioning from McCoy to Radford um when was that in relation to the pandemic?

Jae: That was way back.

Jessica: Oh

Jae: I mean, that was 2015.

Jessica: Oh

Jae: So it has been several years where I have built that network.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. Um since the pandemic started, how have what resources were available before the pandemic that are harder for um you said foreigners to not access anymore? Like what was available before that's harder to get to for people that aren't from the US?

Jae: Well start starting when you don't have a Social Security number, you you don't get anything. I mean uh that's an easy myth to bust. I mean just go to 29:00Social Services uh Office, sit down, and say "I need food stamps, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't have a Social Security number" and you will get nothing. So that hasn't changed, but what changed was that um grants that were given to certain organizations or churches for food for um um like money, financial help to help cover rent, bills, whatever. It was not clearly said to them that they were not going to get those grants. But they were there were the language of the, you know, of the the criteria you need to meet uh to get those grants was it had several veiled threats. I would not [inaudible] I didn't have any access 30:00to any of those services because thankfully, I have a very um um I haven't needed it. But I know while trying to help others or look for others how the hostility of the administration towards foreigners has definitely cut off certain organizations could've certain services or just have them under veiled threats. So many churches that were more giving and open. The word "foreigner" has definitely they have definitely polarized and stop help altogether um. I don't know. And I guess because people feel that pol-pol-polarization, immigrants then they stop asking for help. So then people saying "oh, there's 31:00nobody else to help," so those resources get channeled somewhere else. So I didn't experience that because I'm I have been used to not getting access to anything. So I've tried to build a self-sufficient life. But I have helped. I have to have access for somebody else. I have seen people that have had access, then have lost it. So um the pandemic definitely made it a whole lot worse.

Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. um and going back to when you were ill in March,

Jae: Mhm

Jessica: How did that affect your like employment or just ability to do your job?

Jae: Well, I'm an artist. So first of all, you know, if I don't paint we don't eat. [laugh] And also I do translations and transcriptions. So while I was sick, 32:00it was out of the question. I mean it was there is no. I cannot even put it into words. I mean you know when you uh get the wind knocked out of you? That's how I was operating twenty-four seven when I was okay. Then from that being the ten, the best I was going to be, and add the cough, they relentless cough and chest pain and then the rest of the symptoms that come with a lot of pain or whatever. So it was not, no. There was no way I was going to get anything done. And then when I got healthier, jobs run run dry because I subcontract for a friend who works for the court and legal system in DC. Everything shut down. So there were 33:00no documents to translate. There were no police interviews to transcribe. There was no nothing. And on the craft shows, there was no craft shows. Everything shut down and uh that was a big hit because I had already paid deposits and a lot of the places they didn't give deposits back. So um yeah. Things were scary [chuckle] at that moment and um thankfully I had built up a pantry. I had always buy ahead you know tricks and trade from the low-income family, you now? So I had clothes I have bought on clearance the last the last year. So we had summer clothes. uh I had my all pantry built that had cases of water, cases of hand sanitizer. I like toilet paper, everything. So we were going to be okay. And I 34:00usually try to build several months of bills. I had like I don't use heat during the winter, but I pay fifty bucks to add months, every month, every month. So I have that. I have like six hundred dollars on credit. So when I didn't have much money, I asked for my check for refund [laugh] and I did the same thing with Radford City So I got like a three hundred dollar refund. And uh it was really a lifesaver and I they didn't even think about it. But a woman from admin called me and asked me because a lot of her clients were doing that. They had credits ahead and they were asking for it for their checks. So whoof. That saved me for two months. [laugh] And and I started having more commissions again then slowly 35:00jobs started trickling in here and there. And then it became of "okay, I'm going to pay electricity. I'm still good on on, on, on the internet for the next month. So I want to save a little bit for that." So it has been a game of I dig a hole here and I put it in this hole and then I'm going to dig another hole and I'm going to cover the first one and I just I just uh hope it doesn't catch up with me, you know? So...

Jessica: Absolutely

Jae: That's how resources have been.

Jessica: Wow [sigh] [laugh] Um one thing that I was I was wondering too is you had mentioned politics and like your family's response to politics and how you are talking about it with your kids.

Jae: Yeah.

Jessica: Um can can you talk more about how the the political scene, either in Radford or just generally, has impacted your experience of COVID over the last year?

Jae: Oh it has been in every single way. I mean it started this was the perfect storm that was brewing pre-pandemic. Wh the fact that we had a hard stance on non facts on made some rainbows and Lucky Charms. Uh set the scene for what the pandemic was to become. So um we already have somebody that had very low self-esteem and needed to be reassured constantly and be the best. So he kept turning facts and everything to his needs and his followers. So everything that was presented science, fact based, um anything, which obviously did not match his agenda, his own words... Since that administration began, automatically put 37:00us at a disadvantage. So it quickly began into "oh. This is the dumbs who are believing in this virus that doesn't even exist." So we started with that rhetoric. It was already like it's this peoples' virus and it doesn't exist. And uh so we already started in a disadvantage. We already have started in political climate where the norm is not to look for facts. So a lot of the population including in Radford, some of them they're just they just laugh it up. What was given to them. [inaudible] Anything new or will choose not to believe that, you know? It's like, well, it's not about facts and you know, your choice and your 38:00opinions you're very afraid to make those. But that that's very different know what ours. I had those conversations with my kids. "Why is that person or wearing a mask?" And my best answer was like "they just haven't had the best education baby." Uh, "why those kids not wearing masks?" "Because their parents don't know know better baby." "Well, why can we tell their parents?" "Because some people don't choose not to learn." And um it has been that part has been very hard. It has been very hard to explain to children why some humans don't care for others, period. So I think that's I I have to make a point of buying more stuff for the food food pantry, buying uh extra clothes and dropping them off at the shelter, getting paper towels and toilet paper and leaving it at the 39:00end of the driveway with a sign of "free." I mean I have tried to give control to my children in everything that seems to be out of control. I have tried to give them um hope and a sense of yep, life sometimes there's going to be suck and sometimes people are going to be ugly. But we have the same choices. And when we can, we, it's very easy to give up. But once you've done the right thing, you always want to find somebody else who's going to do the right thing. And then you're going to find somebody else is gonna. And they might not be in the hundreds, but one is enough. It'll have one body that is doing the right thing with you. Then the world is going to seem less scary, less cold, and less crazy. So we started making kits and we started dropping off little, I don't 40:00know, toilet paper, toiletries in people's porch. Strangers. So we got a kick out of parking in somebody's driveway and run! And then we all run, drop off a basket, and run back and and and um it was very it was completely wonderful to see Black Lives Matters signs and stuff like that that we were able to see. So my children felt felt their allies, even though they didn't know these people, they knew they were there. So that's how we have navigated politics and we have had to cut off people. We have, but very few, very, very few. I've had thankfully, friends, who come visit with their children. We stay in the porch, they say in the driveway. And we play charade, we we we blow bubbles, we throw each other, packed snacks. And when the kids ask questions and they asked 41:00questions the same questions to my friends. They give the same answers that I do. So and we watch Dr. Fauci and we watch other other doctors that when other reputable and their assigns. They we watch Bill Nye, Neil deGrasse. I don't know Callie has been following a lot Malala Josephy. Um and then we we've everything that was out of my control, I try to empower my children back with facts, with science with kindness with love as much as I could. Uh we're trying to we make cards for the triage people, the people that are shut in, and the elderly in Radford. The sheriff department calls them every day. So we make cards for them. 42:00We did it for Christmas. And the sheriff department bought bicycles to my children for that. And and so it's little things that how would try to navigate. We celebrated hardcore when we got the election results for Inauguration Day. I mean we were blasting the house with music and we have balloons we had like a Fourth of July feast, dancing, confetti, and tears. And so, yeah, that's how we navigated politics [laugh] during the pandemic. [laugh]

Jessica: Oh wow, that's amazing. [laugh] How do you and your family feel about the vaccine coming?

Jae: We are a mix of terrified. and super excited. Terrified because it's a fact there's not a lot of science behind it. There's not a lot of time behind it. So 43:00just by as as a science-based family, we know that this process is not fast. So that makes us nervous. But after the outcome that we have seen of what COVID does um we're all for the vaccine and for what they have seen with me. And also we have lost people to COVID. And we have people with COVID that had no symptoms. Uh we have people that had mild COVID and other people, you know, all the ranges and colors. And and and so we talked about it and we all shared our fears. And I think when I'm allowed to share my fear, ah some people think that you're not allowed to show fear to children because you scare them. But I think what children get afraid of is when they don't know they can trust you because 44:00you sugarcoat everything. So when something the real truth pokes out, then it's like "ah what is this? This is not what you have been telling me." So children need dosages of reality to their own age. So um I was honest, and I'm scared for these reasons. But I'm more afraid of not having them. I'm more afraid to what this will keep doing to our country and to our communities if we don't have it. So we're scared, but excited and we will get it as soon as we can and we are able to.

Jessica: Um do you um still keep in touch with your family abroad?

Jae: I don't have a lot of family. I have family of choice. So I do have a lot of friends all over the world. And we have seen how COVID has ravaged or not 45:00other countries.

Jessica: Okay. Um how are you keeping in touch with family abroad and then or friends, family of choice abroad? And how are you... How has that changed since COVID started?

Jae: I'm keeping in contact via WhatsApp, Snapchat, Facebook. Um we use mail because my kids love the mailman and love to write. So we do send cards. We send letter the old-fashioned way and we also support our local post office. So we're trying to be more purposeful and sending letters these days. So um that way. And what was the other part of the question aside from how...

Jessica: Oh, just how it's changed since COVID started?

Jae: Hm not much, since I've gone through the process of not having a Social Security number to a green card. I was not able to um travel. Otherwise I will not going to be allowed back in the country. But it also has it does have changed, I don't know, this matters or not the quality of the communication because there's obviously more anxiety. There is obviously sadness. When we have lost people. There's obviously some anger and shame. Like I'm go through a lot of embarrassment because we're in the USA. And I have plenty of friends that the only thing They say to me is like what the fuck me [laugh] bleep me out. Bleep me out. But that's and that has been really sobering. I mean, I I'm not going to lie to you. I mean there there's has been times I don't even want to talk with 47:00anyone because it's embarrassing. It's like a freaking embarrassment and I just cannot take more questions, more probing question like "is this really how it is? Is this is hap-?" Like sometimes I'm not in the mood for that [laugh] you know? And it has been especially hard when your own country's crumbling and imploding, having to stick up with it. And I'm not even an American. So it's like, [sigh] I'm getting it for from every side and I'm not even an American [laugh] And so I think the quality of the conversation has definitely degraded in in that sense. Like I'm more reserved because I don't want to be like pommeled sometimes.

Jessica: What are people most like fascinated by when it comes to your experience with it? You know, if they're not in the United States currently? 48:00What are they like "wow, that's insane?"

Jae: I don't think fascinated is the word.

Jessica: Okay.

Jae: I think it's disgusted by the majority, the consensus of it is that way. I mean, obviously, they're my friends. They think I'm an amazing person and an amazing mom. But when it comes globally, you just have disgusted. It's like "run. Run then show your green card. Just have your Ameri- your Mexican passport and just come with your Mexican kids. Do they have the dual citizenship yet?" And it's like "no." "Darn it." Um I have friends that have invited me to come see them like in Europe and they were already has told me come with your Mexican passport. So it hasn't been fascinating.

Jessica: Okay. Fair enough. [laugh] I just wondered if there was something like if it was about maybe like Trump or if it was about people not taking safety 49:00precautions that they're disgusted by?

Jae: It's like one thing.

Jessica: Okay.

Jae: I manage the same you'd like the same dumpster fire. There is no, there I hadn't really noticed that my friends or family have um made up the friends about it is just like Trump, people in cages, uh cops murdering people. It's just like one lump of dumpster fire just in it.

Jessica: Yeah. Um so one other question was about like since you had your initial experience with with probably COVID in March, um how has your access to healthcare been? Either for you or your kids?

Jae: It's actually improved. Because um not the mm- the me- not the billing 50:00part, the billing part has been atrocious. But because now I'm Green Card and I my got my status through protect. I have a protected status basically because of the uh the domestic violence and because I was married to a citizen. So um I have protected status, so I do not get free Medicare, but I have access to buy insurance. When you're a foreigner, you cannot buy insurance unless your sponsored by your company and your company chooses to pay for your insurance, you don't have access to insurance. So even if I had three million dollars and I wanted to buy my policy, I had I had no access to buy that. So now I do. So that has made it like "Oh, this is hurting. I can go to the doctor." I don't have to 51:00Google how to pull out my elbow without pain. [laugh] So it has definitely improved. Definitely improved.

Jessica: Awesome. That's great. [laugh]

Jae: Yeah. People will complain about going to a doctor and I'm just like "Yes, yes! I have an appointment next week. Who has a doctor? And you have a doctor and you have a doctor," You know? [laughter]

Jessica: Um that was um most I think we really covered a lot of it. All of these questions here. Um and are you yourself pursuing education or anything like that right now?

Jae: [inaudible] Because I'm gonna have when I graduated high school. I had already [inaudible] So the the trick here is [inaudible] you have your high 52:00school credits. You don't graduate. It's a shit show. Bleep me out for the colorful language. Um but I will say [inaudible] and [inaudible] nothing [inaudible] I mean if you think that American bureaucracy is horrible. Oh, you have no idea what is. Mexican bureaucracy Okay. Say you need to be forty dollars and tomorrow is like now. But what happened with the one hundred and ten dollars for this? And and oh you can't. You need to have a family member or a friend come. Then you knew that in but the attorney [inaudible] dean here. So with all 53:00of that, I decided to do my GED. Like I'm not bother with it anymore. And ah I'm in the process of doing that and I don't know you have ever heard of Coursera? I do about one or two courses a year and I have never get a certificate because I don't know I'm phobic of commitment or something. But this year I I did it. I'm doing two things in Coursera right now and I'm getting the certificate. So yeah, I guess I am.

Jessica: That's amazing. Has COVID affected that at all?

Jae: Well, yeah, I spend more time at home, so I do better. [laugh]

Jessica: Fair enough. All right. [laugh] um Well, those are those are all my 54:00questions. Is there anything that you wanted to share about your experiences that we haven't covered yet?

Jae: No. I think I've talked your ear off.

Jessica: No. Don't worry. All right. Well, thank you so much, Ms. De la Mora and I will send you a copy of this if you'd like to have it. Um and yeah, this was wonderful.