VT Stories Oral History with Mallory Foutch and Anna LoMascolo, March 19, 2018 (Ms2016-015)

Emily Walters: I hope you guys are doing well. Thank you so much for the rescheduling. I guess we can start by maybe your personal history with Virginia Tech, so what brought you here, how long you've been here, why you chose Virginia Tech, and Mallory we can start with you.

Mallory Foutch: Sure. So I came to the Virginia Tech community in June of 2016, so not quite at two years yet. This was my first full-time position straight out of graduate school, so I went to college for four years and then I went to graduate school and studied higher education for two years, and then I was like okay well, I guess it's time to get a job. So put a pause on going to school for a minute and go to work. When I was in college and when I was in graduate school I became just a very excited and outspoken and passionate feminist I think. So I 1:00was really involved in a lot of social justice work in college and then continued that into grad school. But grad school was where I specifically started to channel that into the work that I was doing, and so started to really try to see where work around women and equity and feminism could show up in my different positions on campus. And so that really inspired when I began job searching, so in early 2016 started looking at jobs, knew I was going to be graduating, so I just started to figure that out.

The position at the Women's Center offered a really unique opportunity for an entry-level professional into working in higher ed administration. You got to work with students. You get to develop programming. You get to work with faculty and staff. You get to work in a dynamic office that isn't on every campus, and so I had never worked on a campus before that had a space that was just devoted to the issues that our office focuses on. Typically it's like eight to 15 issues 2:00and it's called like the Gender Center or something like that, and it covers so many things, and sometimes that doesn't allow specificity right, and you feel like you are trying to do everything. And so I was drawn to working here because we focus on issues that are specific and that are culturally relevant I think. They impact how our communities work. And I was really drawn to that and to the idea of doing work around culture change, right. So it's not just like a one-off. It's like you show up and you are engaged in the work and even though it can be difficult, you can figure out what your role can be, and I think that was really exciting for me. And after meeting the staff and like getting to know the community a little bit I was pretty drawn to the position. And so being able to come here and start working and get really engaged on campus has been really the life of me here for the past year and a half I think.

And being involved at the Women's Center and being able to bring those connections and build that out into the rest of campus I think is the type of feminism that I like for the Women's Center to be about, right. It's about community building and it's about coalition building, and it's about solidarity. And it's about how our issues affect the issues of your community and how we can work and build those out together. And I think it's really an inspiring place to work. With given current events and given a lot of things that are going on in the world right now I think a lot of folks are looking to the Women's Center to lead conversations, but then also they are also like, "How can we help the Women's Center?" which I think is a cool opportunity that we're in right now. So that's a little bit about how I ended up here.

Emily: Anna.

Anna LoMascolo: And before I start let me just say how glad we are that we ended up with Mallory, because it never felt like a guarantee until she signed the 4:00contract. She put thought into it. She's made a big difference being here, so we're grateful. So my story is very different from Mallory's. So I like to say that my family is woven into the fabric of Virginia Tech. And I say that because my great-grandfather, Angelo LoMascolo, who immigrated from Sicily was Virginia Tech's first tailor way back in the day when we were all-male all-military. And in fact, today I have rare opportunities when some of the older alum at the University come back to engage with them and they remember him very fondly, so that's a great connection for me. And actually there was a little white house named the LoMascolo House when I was growing up, and I actually lived in that house for three months, which I don't think we were supposed to, but we did. And one of the cool things in that history is that the LoMascolo House was next to 5:00the Price House, which became the second home of the Women's Center, so I like that sense of connectedness.

But I come from a long line of Hokies. My dad got two degrees here. My mom got two degrees here and my sister got two degrees here. I got two degrees here, so we go way back. I did grow up here in Blacksburg, went to Virginia Tech as an undergraduate, got my degree in communication studies. I left Blacksburg, went to New York City, lived in California, thought I would not come back and I did. So I came back to pursue a PhD in sociology, and I have a degree in that program with a certificate in gender studies, women's and gender studies.

But my major building was McBride Hall. That's where sociology is house, and so at that time the little white house, Price House, was the home of the Women's Center. So as a gender sociologist walking in and out of McBride on a regular basis I saw that little white house that said Women's Center on it, and was 6:00always curious about what they do.

So one day I just walked in and said, "Hi, I'm curious about what you there," and there was a volunteer coordinator at the time, Penny, who I struck up a friendship with. And I just started doing little volunteer things for the Women's Center. I wasn't even really that active or involved, but I really fell in love with the staff. I fell in love with the mission of the center. I fell in love with the feeling that I got when I was in the Women's Center. So you know, I came to Virginia Tech for school, but I ended up finding kind of a home away from home in the Women's Center. And then, I don't know, somewhere halfway through my graduate program I ended up applying for a job here and I got it, so I've been at the Women's Center since 2004. So multiple roles. I've been a student. I've been a member of the community and on the staff of the Women's Center for a long time.

Emily: I do definitely want to talk about the Women's Center a little bit, but before that I want to ask, and this might tie into the Women's Center, if in your time here what was your first memory or what was your favorite memory or any difficult moments that you faced? The women that we're interviewing, we're interested in women's history here at Virginia Tech, so only being here a year and a half you might not have as many stories, but just anything that you may have faced or interesting moments, things like that.

Mallory: I don't know. I think it's interesting that we're in women's month again, so I think of this time last year -- ooh, there was a lot going on, and I think we can say the same thing for now, right, like that's still a common thing. Like ooh, there's a lot going on. Ha-ha, like that's new water cooler talk. But when I think of a really kind of like flashpoint moment or something 8:00that really kind of calls to like why the work here matters, and like makes me think like that was super Women's Center, was last year when we were organizing one of the main events for Women's Month which is called like Take Back the Night, so like a student group organizes that. But in the build-up to that, so it's typically in late March, but in the build-up to that there had been just a slew of crime alerts and things going out, and so there was just a high awareness around issues of gender-based violence at that time and lots of folks reaching out to the office. Being like how can we help? Lots of people like we need to do more, lots of calls for campus to do X Y and Z by lots of different folks, folks inside the community, folks outside the community. And so there was just all this energy kind of funneling into this one evening that typically stands like a rally where people gather and talk and share stories, and kind of 9:00just build awareness and solidarity.

It was raining that day, so it was kind of like cruddy outside, so it's typically supposed to be outside and then you March, but it ended up being inside. So we had to move it into the graduate life center auditorium, which I think is capacity around like 580 or 600, and so many people showed up. There were almost 800 people there. People that were sitting in the aisles. I was sitting right in front of the stage like on the floor in a much smaller space than my body can hold, and I was like this is wild, but it was so powerful. I feel like I will always think of that night when I think of the Women's Center, because the issues that we work on have an ability to make people care, and they have an ability to like make people show up, and they have an ability to move a community to action, right. So there were just so many calls for people to say 10:00something or speak or release a statement or do X Y and Z. And I think it made a lot of people uncomfortable, but then it also made a lot of people be like maybe we need to rethink some things. And I think that is such a moment where it comes from power from students pushing up and pushing against, and it also calls for people who work here to recognize that students have a lot of voice and a lot of car and a lot of passion. And when we congratulate them for caring about things but then we don't show them a route to like do something with their passion, that's like maybe we need to rethink that, right. And I just think it was such a cool moment and such a way to capture a women's month that while we were planning we were just kind of at a loss. Like how do we even pick a theme for right now? How do we capture a moment that is women's month 2017? Like what is 2017 even?

And so, I felt like it was just so quintessential of the moment that was 11:00happening in a way to capture a lot of the anger, a lot of the passion, a lot of the energy, but also funneling that into how can this result in something that is positive, right? And so I feel like sometimes we get really anxious when people or students are angry, and I think what we need to do is focus on how do we channel that into something that is productive? A lot of times I feel like that is sometimes what I do here. [Laughs] And thinking about how do we take all these issues that sometimes suck and channel that energy into being productive through routes of advocacy or routes of social change or routes of culture shift or anything like that. And so in my short time at Virginia Tech I will always remember Take Back the Night 2017. It's just like I guess this is how we do things here. It was a lot. [Laughs]

Emily: I just spoke with Susan Anderson who I think is the faculty advisor for 12:00the group that organizes that, and she said last year was really powerful as well, just because of everything that's going on.

Anna: So for me lots and lots of highs and lows over time, but one of the things that I think about when I think about the work of Women's Center, and this is something that Sharon Davy who was the long-time director of the Women's Center at UVA said in a book that she wrote that at Women's Centers we on the one hand bind wounds and on the other hand we turn our faces to the sun and we celebrate. And so I always try to be mindful in every day of the work that there's really hard really frustrating aspects of the work, and then there's so many rewards.

So to start with the binding the wounds and the things that have been difficult and painful for me when I look over time, because I've been here forever, for 14 years, I think about those few times that there have been very high profile 13:00incidences of interpersonal violence that have resulted in the death of members of our community. And you know, that's extremely difficult. We deal in the practice of supporting people on a daily basis who are dealing with violence and the threat of violence. But those moments where it escalates and it results in loss of life and the amount of pain that that inflicts on the community and the confusion that that inflicts, and sort of the space that the Women's Center occupies in that to be a source of support and a source of trying to help people cope and understand and have resources and have access and that kind of thing, those have been really difficult times. But what emerges from that is a renewed sense of commitment to the conversation, a new sense of awareness that this really still exists in significant ways, and you know, exists in significant 14:00ways on a university campus. And it is something that we need to really continue to be committed to and work towards and find ways to grieve together and heal together and kind of review that commitment and move forward.

Mallory just talked about last year's Take Back the Night, and I think about the way that Take Back the Night in those years where that has happened how that became a space of speaking out and remembering and honoring and renewing that commitment, so it's powerful. Those have been some tough times, and as a Women's Center we have been uniquely positioned to respond in certain ways and to support and that's a real gift for us I think. When I think about turning our faces to the sun there's been lots of moments where I felt like the institution was advancing in significant ways around women's and gender issues.

And one of those, I had the joy of being the first graduate assistant on the 15:00Virginia Tech ADVANCE grant back when we received National Science Foundation funds to have an ADVANCE program here. And it was that moment where we got money from the National Science Foundation that was about transforming the institution not fixing women, right. Because so much of the time it's about what should women be doing different. But this takes a look at the culture and the structure of the institution and says what kind of changes need to be made on that front to advance women, and of course advance specifically focused on STEM areas, so Science Technology Engineering and Math. We continue to have the ADVANCE program post-grant and those activities include everyone now, but during the life of the grant it was very focused on those STEM areas.

But you know you fast-forward these years later and we have four or five women 16:00deans. We have significantly more representation of women in the faculty ranks in those areas, and there were so many work/life policies put into place that support women that help them have more successful academic careers. So when I think of celebration that's one of the hallmark moments, and to have been part of that when it was getting off the ground and then I transitioned from ADVANCE into the Women's Center. The Women's Center of course the director at the time was part of the grant-writing process to bring ADVANCE to Virginia Tech. So just to be part of that mix, to see that get underway and to see the changes that rolled out, and again, under that umbrella of let's look at the institution and things that need to change about the institution to advance women, not that sort of focus on what do women need to do differently. Because you know when you work at a Women's Center and you engage in this work, I feel like we are always consistently redirecting the conversation, whether it's advancing women in 17:00faculty careers, or if it's talking about women who are victims and survivors or violence, it's looking at the social responsibility. Looking at the culture. Looking at the structures in place. Not looking at the individual and saying what should you be doing differently to prevent things happening to you. So shifting that focus. We need to stop focusing on individuals and groups of people and really push looking more broadly at structures and culture.

Emily: Yeah. Kind of two questions. We were talking about like a moment and I feel like now is definitely a moment where we are at least societally we are looking more at the culture and what we're doing wrong rather than looking at the individual. I want to ask you about if you've seen changes or more support because of the MeToo movement or the TimesUp movement or the Oscars or at the Academy Awards they wore all black.

And then also what kind of changes. You just spoke about the ADVANCE grant, but any other changes that may have happened that you were happy to see and what changes you would still like to see happen, so problems or issues that need to be resolved here on campus that you see here and need to be addressed in the future.

Mallory: We've already had a couple of different discussions, programs, things like that for Women's Month specifically that are about MeToo. They are about how that layers onto or shows up in academic spaces where sometimes even though a lot of the pieces around Title 9 or equal opportunity or just like federal law, like everybody has to learn those things right, when you join the community, but they may be some of the things that you quickly forget. And so there's a big kind of I think push to re-educate people and re-empower them 19:00around like what are your rights? What are the things that shouldn't be happening to you? How do you access and use voice? How do you have power or are you disempowered, and what are those structures of power and hierarchy and access that people may have at the institution or people don't have. And so I think that there has been a heightened, and I mean I have only been here, and I think there has always been a call to the Women's Center to be able to respond to cultural movements.

But I've only worked here since I feel like there is gender and there is violence and there is conversations around sexual assault in the news at a very frequent basis. That is the only time I have ever worked here and so it always feels saturated. I feel saturated when I'm at work. I feel saturated when I'm out of work. I feel saturated when I'm in public and it's just such an interesting moment to feel such a hyperpresence, and I think that that has 20:00allowed us to view the issue as not the shortcomings of individuals or the single bad actors or the bad apple. We're looking at the tree now and I think that is the cool piece of it. And I would say that at the universities that I have been made aware of and been allowed to be a part of is just the increased want to be involved in this office has just been such an over-rush in the time that I've been here. Like we've had more applications for student interns, for students wanted to get involved. I'm answering emails from students almost daily about how can I get involved? What is my role? How do I claim access to being a part of this?

And I feel like this moment is telling people that it is no longer good enough to just care about things. How are you acting? How are you no longer just saying 21:00well I'm not a bad person. Like these are the things I care about. I support these things, etc. This moment is asking us, but what are we doing to change the way that we act. How are your conversations changing? Who are you showing up for physically? What are you no longer letting fly in a meeting? Where are you speaking up? Where are you checking your friends? Where are you showing up as a bystander? And I think a lot of these moments are showing up, and I do a lot of bystander education with the office, and I think so much of this is showing up as people are seeing connections to national movements that you sometimes don't feel a part of, to people are seeing how that literally is bystander intervention. People are literally seeing how that is gender-based violence prevention. People are seeing how that literally is a conversation that I have with a friend where we discuss that one creepy moment that we both had like that 22:00is #MeToo. You know what I mean? And I think that there is just such a cool moment where people see themselves so reflected in national movements that are led by like really powerful people, right, but I think it's also the really powerful people are looking at the people who have no power and saying what are we doing for them? And I think historically it's maybe not been a ton, and so that's why I think something like Time's Up is really cool and important, like they are raising all this money and giving legal opportunities and access to people who work in service shops or folks who work in staff positions and things like that. Like it's just so important.

And I think that it ties back to what Anna was saying. It ties back to all of these things that I think Women's Centers have probably always been saying, that if we're asking questions about the individual aspects of an event we're not 23:00even getting it. We're not getting it, right. It's about structure, it's about culture, and it's about power. And so when I talk to students and I say gender-based violence at its core is about power. They are like, hmm, I don't know if I understand that. That seems very abstract. It seems like it's about two people. It can be about the interaction of two people, but it's really about power. And so how are we able to engage in that conversation, and I think when people are seeing it played out nationally it does cause some people to draw back, to withdraw. Like this is just too much. I'm inundated, etc. But I think on the whole it's actually drawing more people into the conversation. When you are inundated by it you are like well, might as well pay attention and learn something from this, right?

And so I've also seen much more male engagement in the issues as of late of men who literally just want to show up and learn things. I also think this is a time 24:00where we can have grace and empathy with each other around what we do know, what we don't know, what we've historically shown up to, what we haven't shown up to.

And I think that the more that we can put hands out to pull people in to conversations and culture change rather than shame people or blame people for what they historically have not been a part of, I think that's how we continue to move forward in a time of MeToo that honestly doesn't seem like it's ending anytime soon.

Emily: Yeah.

Anna: That was such a good response I don't actually have a whole lot to add, but I will say that MeToo just feels like such the perfect example of the whole feminist adage of the personal's political right. So the thing that we individually feel and deal with and recover from and heal from we suddenly understand and the context of this happens to so many more people than not. And that is sad, but it also is incredibly powerful to be part of community, whether 25:00that's localized community or feeling like you are like Mallory said connected to this larger movement.

And I will say that I've had more family and friends curious this year about what I do. I mean I've spent most of my professional career, I think everybody thinks I'm a women's studies professor and they really don't ask me what I do because they are like, "She's a college professor. She teaches students," and I really don't do any of that. I don't teach. I am not located in that academic department. But there's been so much more curiosity around what I do because of the awareness that people are gaining. And this is stuff they've never even thought about, right. And so that to me is wonderful.

A couple of threads I wanted to pick up on that Mallory brought up is that saturation issue. And I am keenly aware that while from an awareness perspective I'm so excited about MeToo and Time's Up, because we're having a national 26:00conversation that needs to happen. That said, I think about people who are impacted and traumatized by violence. I'm thinking about our clients and I'm thinking about members of our community that never get a break anymore, right. So they are living it and they are dealing with it and it's the noise of their lives. It's the backdrop of their lives. Where can you go? Where can you turn on the radio or the television or go to the coffee room or water cooler and it's not a topic of conversation? So I am sensitive to the benefits and drawbacks of that saturation point. That said, I do hope that it continues to keep its traction so we continue to talk about it and it doesn't fade out with the newest chaos of the day.

The other thing that I'm keenly aware of as well is that it is a privilege to be 27:00able to say MeToo. There is a comfort I think that many of us feel to Facebook#MeToo and to basically identify ourselves as yes, I have faced this. I have experienced this. And being reminded that there is a lot of people for whom it would be really risky to make that claim, and an awareness that there are folks who aren't at a place yet for themselves where they can make that claim. Again, I'm excited by MeToo and I am grateful for the connection and local being connected to national and this sense of community. I'm always aware as well of those who can't quite claim that yet for whatever reason and that's okay.

Emily: So do you think -- so everybody talks about like Hokie nation and how strong our community is, especially after April 16th, so I'm wondering if you 28:00feel that it's especially strong maybe here just the people reaching out, just saying how can I help, do you think that's part of the Hokie community nation, like just how it is? Because I know when I reach out about jobs it's all about the Hokies that you know there and they are like, "Yes, we like hiring Hokies." I'm wondering if you feel like it is helpful to have a community like that, like a strength like that, and do you think that it is happening elsewhere and how we can maybe permeate elsewhere if they don't have this kind of strong community?

Mallory: I think that, let me think, so one of my first I would say experiences with the idea of the Hokie nation, so being someone who is newer to the community, was one of the first times I was talking with students who identified 29:00as activists on campus, saying we are not a part of the Hokie nation. Like we don't identify with that idea. We want to, and we think that the work that we're doing around pushing awareness of gender-based violence or issues of racism on campus and things like that, they are like that's the Hokie nation that we want to see and be a part of, and that's why we care so much, right? And so I think a lot of the students that I work with and community members that I work with are working on advocacy and are working in caucuses who are doing a lot of kind of lobbying really to get people to care about the issues that really pertain to peoples' identities and ability to feel safe and supported, and like they can advance at the institution. I see that as being a part of the Hokie Nation, but also wanting the Hokie Nation to progress. But I will say that I have felt differently at different times.

I mean I think that since I've started here I've probably been to like eight 30:00rallies or protests or things like that, and those are moments when I see an emerging of something like the Hokie nation with kind of the outer community to see. Like what are the connections between our thoughts on current issues or events or like what's happening in the world or anything like that. And I do see an idea of the Hokie Nation when people are reaching out and say we want to get involved. We want to serve. We want to do those things, because for a lot of the students I work with the idea of Ut Prosim is helping the institution get better and advance and include more people, and think more about people who haven't always been thought about in the conversation. Or who weren't thought about when this building was built, or weren't thought about when there were only stairs to get somewhere versus a ramp or something like that. Like those are the people 31:00that I think of when I think of the Hokie Nation, is people wanting this community to get better, and they see themselves as accountable to the institution improving and getting better for more people.

When I love a place I want to hold it accountable. I see that as the purest form of like love, is like I am accountable to you. I want you to get better, but I also need you to help me believe that can happen. And I see that the idea of kind of progression or advancement for a lot of folks is the individual commitment to either Ut Prosim or the Hokie Nation or whatever your idea of the Virginia Tech community is, so that's an individual commitment. But then I also see it as a lot of people joining to look at it deeper than that. So what is the commitment from the institution back to you to commit to these new ideas or 32:00programs or strategies around diversity inclusion or advancement for women or advancement for people of color, or recruitment of more minority students or things like that.

So I think those would be my general thoughts around the Hokie Nation. I think I have been here at a time where more students are starting to mobilize than maybe have previously. But I think that from my understanding and the people that I work with a lot Virginia Tech has always been a community that cares deeply about its people and wants to do right by those people and wants to make them feel like they are valued in their community. And so those things that we can unite around when we want to unite around something it's typically in a very large fashion, like a lot of people will show up. And so I think what we're doing right now is widening that, like what are the things that we care about 33:00and value as an institution that makes people want to show up and care and be present in that. Yeah, I would say those are my thoughts.

Anna: Yeah, those are some really good points. You know whenever you take a workshop or a training in conflict resolution they always talk about the benefits of conflict and how we think of conflict as a bad thing, but really it's a very productive thing. So I think the accountability piece, the part of being a member of the Hokie Nation is constructive criticism. It is pointing out opportunities to get better and it is holding us accountable so that's really important. I'm a little more warm and fuzzy about Hokie Nation stuff and I think that's part of my -- I feel so much part of Virginia Tech in so many ways. And I've had so many experiences in my personal life where I've been out in the world and the only other people in the room were Hokies. It was just strange. I 34:00got my first internship when I was in college at HBO Downtown Productions in New York City, because I interviewed with a guy who had just spent the weekend in Blacksburg because his sister was going to Virginia Tech.

I was in Coastal Sonoma in California and we were in a sandwich shop and we were in a town with a population of 19. The town population said 19. I don't even know why they had a sandwich shop, but we were in there with two other people and they were biking from Alaska to San Diego and they were from Virginia Tech. I'm like when did that happen? I went to Stonehenge. They were Hokies. So it's just we're everywhere and I love that sense of global, literally global community.

And I do think there's something special about Virginia Tech. I do think there's something special about this identity of Hokie Nation and I do think there's something deeply special about Ut Prosim. I think the way that manifests itself 35:00for me from a Women's Center perspective is that we are a relatively small staff with a really big mission with really big goals and objectives. We can't accomplish them. We can't meet them as an inn of 9, we can't. And so our work and the accomplishments that we can celebrate and the difference and impact that I feel that we make is only because of relationships and commitment across campus and kind of throughout the community. So to me that's Hokie Nation. To me that's Ut Prosim in many ways, right. It's like we have this amazing corps of Virginia Tech ambassadors for Women's Center work, which is just an incredible thing. So you know, I will forever say my number one favorite thing about this job in this place is the people that we get to do the work with, and they are 36:00many and they come from all different corners of the campus and community.

And to me that's special, because I tell you, when you go to regional Women's Center meetings and national Women's Center meetings you learn that that is not the norm. It is not typical. It's not normal or typical or average for the Women's Center to work closely with law enforcement. It is not typical or average for the Women's Center to work closely with Title 9 officers or judicial officers, or so many of the folks that we work with in support of our mission, in support of our students, in support of our clients. And so to be able to say that it's a special thing, and I think a lot of that is connected to that sense Hokie Nation, to that sense of service. It's such a collaborative spirit. It's intangible, but absolutely alive and important, and I just don't think we could do what we do without it.

Emily: And so could you speak a little bit about what each of you do at the Women's Center and then maybe favorite moments that you've had with your job or your favorite aspects or things like that, just Women's Center specific?

Mallory: Sure. Well I serve as a program coordinator on our programming team within the office. So my position specifically looks to engage in programming and event management, so doing a couple of different series that we have historically done, so a couple of lecture series, some smaller conferences, a couple of kind of workshop series around salary negotiation or different kind of issues that directly impact women. I also coordinate what's called Women's Month, which is a month-long celebration each March where we look to folks 38:00around the Blacksburg and Virginia Tech communities to organize and host events or plan exhibits or do any type of thing that has to do with women to their specific community. And then we really try to highlight and get folks to go to a lot of these events, to kind of pick up on that celebratory piece thing Anna was talking about earlier. I think there is always an aspect of Women's Month that is about kind of like the cultural shift or like what's the work to be done. But then there's also just a good portion of let's just gather and celebrate, or like let's gather and talk about things, or let's gather and support the work and the research or the advocacy or anything that each of us are doing on campus. And I think I'm really pleased by the amount of programs that come from all different areas of campus. And I think it's also a cool moment for a lot of different offices that I work with for them to be like, "Oh we never even 39:00thought to partner with the Women's Center. This is cool." I'm like, "Yeah, we're here. Hit me up." This is what I like doing. I love building collaboration, like I thrive.

And so I think Women's Month, and then just like my general programming vision in general is just how are the tables that we are allowed to sit at, that is such a responsibility, right, if we are programming or collaborating with people. I think I see it as a duty to make sure that gendered aspects or feminism or anything like that is showing up in those partnerships. I work with a lot of students in the office and outside of the office. I help a bit with gender-based violence prevention, so in doing bystander intervention. I help with our campaign called It's On us that is from a nationally-recognized movement that asks colleges and universities to think about how they are educating people about consent. And then I just help with things here and there. 40:00One of the biggest things we're working on right now is getting things ready to go, so a year from now the Women's Center will be celebrating our 25th Anniversary on campus, and so that's a huge programmatic undertaking. And it's also a huge opportunity for community building and relationship building and inviting folks in who are inspired by the moment that we're in to say, "Hey, you can be an ally of the Women's Center too." Like you can show up for us and we can also show up for you.

And so I consider a huge part of my work for the Women's Center as a program coordinator to really just build relationships and get to know people and show up for them, and then figure out what are the end roads and the connections that our offices can have that maybe haven't historically been built-out, and so let's put in the time to do that. And I think it just opens us up to knowing more people, to more people knowing who we are, and to be ever-expanding in the 41:00idea of like what our work is, right. And so I think that our call right now is to know that the work of gender-based violence prevention or the work of feminism or the work of equity and access and things like that, we can come at it through just a gendered lens, but how is the work at the Women's Center to also be thinking about race and ethnicity, to be thinking about class, to be thinking about ability status, to be thinking about sexual orientation. Like how are we also needing to include all of these other identifies in the ability to be effective in our work? And I think that's another challenge that I put to myself in serving as a program coordinator for the office.

Anna: So my current role is co-director and I work closely with Mallory on the programming and outreach side. My co-director, my other co-director oversees the 42:00counseling and advocacy work.

This is my fourth position at the Women's Center since I've been here, so I started out in a grant-funded position that did education and outreach around gender-based violence, and I also worked more closely with clients in that role. And then my most previous few roles have been on this programming and outreach side.

Some of the highlights for me, so Mallory said we're getting ready to celebrate our 25th Anniversary. I've been around for the 10th and 16th and the 20th, and those anniversaries have been real highlights, because they are an opportunity for us to celebrate what we've done, to really highlight who we are and our mission and our impact on the campus and to be in community with other people. So those have been some real highlights. I think back to the 10th Anniversary, I think the two big epicenters of that celebration was a gala. And then there was 43:00a concert in Burruss Hall by Sweet Honey and the Rock. And at that time I didn't really know much about Sweet Honey and the Rock because I wanted to participate in the celebration and I didn't sit down the whole time. Burruss Hall was packed. Sweet Honey and the Rock was fabulous. They are an A Capella group and they are just amazing.

And that was one of those moments where at the end the then vice president of Multicultural Affairs told our director after that show, "Wow, we really didn't know just how much we needed this." So it was again, it was just one of those moments where you don't even necessarily plan for that kind of impact or see it coming, but where you're just in community with to her people celebrating, and it was very cathartic for folks I think. And so to be part of those anniversary celebrations and to uplift the work and to recognize the accomplishments and successes of women on campus have been real highlights.

We have a program here at the Women's Center that pairs Virginia Tech women as mentors with middle school girls at Blacksburg Middle School, it's called Aware. And that has been a highlight for me to watch that program develop and grow over time. Every April we bring all the aware girls to Virginia Tech for what's called College Day, and so they get to engage in all sorts of activities that college students would do, right. So they get to go to Squires and maybe bowl. They get to go see some sort of demonstration, whether it's robotics or science or what have you, go visit a residence hall, eat in a dining hall, scavenger hunt around campus. And so they are really kind of moving through campus as if they were students. And I got to a couple of years ago kind of follow them around for a day, and that was such a highlight, because there are a lot of kids who don't seem themselves at college. And just the act of bringing them here and demystifying it and having them see how kind of neat it is and different, it 45:00feels like it really makes a difference.

And we hear from parents every year, especially our coordinator of that program, Jessie [00:45:07 Molsner], hears from parents every year about the difference it makes in their child's life. And it is such a great opportunity for Virginia Tech women to serve in that mentoring role, to be someone that those kids can talk to and learn from and look up to, so it's really exciting.

And then I guess the other highlight I would talk about is last year at the Advancing Diversity Workshop I cofacilitated a presentation with Mary Beth Dunkenberger who was then the women's community representative to the Commission on Equal Opportunity and Diversity. And we kind of just did a needs assessment session as a breakout at the Advancing Diversity Conference, and that session culminated that day in the genesis of the Women's Alliance and Caucus at Virginia Tech, which has been a really active involved vocal group of 46:00representatives for women across the board at Virginia Tech -- graduate students, staff, teaching faculty, AP faculty, research faculty. So I'm so proud of that. I'm so proud to have a voice, that women have a voice in governance, that they have a voice at the table and that sort of just came out of an hour and a half conversation where we were talking about what does Virginia Tech need to be doing differently and that that was able to emerge.

Through that alliance I'm also now working more at the institutional level to talk about women's and gender issues and the way women in different employment classifications are being impacted at the University. So it seems like a real opportunity to make some headway and to make some positive change.

So in my day-to-day, unfortunately, the more I get involved in those sort of 47:00institutional level endeavors the less opportunity I have to do a lot of on the ground programming. But it's all important work and it's all a way to make sure that we continue to have women's and gender issues at the table in discussions at multiple levels. And I feel like as long as we continue to do that we are meeting our mission and we are doing the work of the Women's Center.

Emily: We spoke a little bit about changes that you've seen. Are there any that you would like to see either here at the Women's Center, not like bad changes, but just the progress that you would like to see made here at the University?

Mallory: I think about the Women's Center and meetings that I've been in recently. So Anna mentioned that we have good relationships with other folks 48:00that are tasked with doing response work around gender-based violence and things like that around the institution. And the one thing I know about all of the people that do this work is that they are all so overstretched. Like there is just an inundation of people who need services right now. They are in this moment where you are just saturated by people coming forward and people seeking justice and people wanting their story to be heard, that is happening here too. Sometimes they think that we can look at social movements at present and wow, it's all of these celebrities who are coming forward or it's all of these things and what-not. But no, that happens in your community too. That's happening on college campuses everywhere. All of the communities that I've ever been a part of I talk with people who still work there, and they say, "Our caseloads are so 49:00wild right now. We just have so many people that we need to serve, whether it's through kind of a Title 9 or gender-based violence response avenue, whether it's through just a counseling services avenue, whether it's through these other avenues of people who need support at an institution. There is such a need and there is so little people, resources, energy to meet that."

I think one of the biggest changes right now is around -- that I would like to see is just around how we resource and value the people that do this response work, because they need help too. They need more money. They need more people. They need more access to restorative and self-care opportunities. And I think that at this moment, like I was in a meeting the other day and it was like we are about to go meet with this group of people who have power at the 50:00institution. What should we tell them that they need? And we all kind of sat there for a second and I don't think anyone was going to say anything, and I was like well, I feel like if I don't use this moment to advocate for people who are tired and always stretched and always really stressed out by the work. The direct service work is really taxing. I was like if I don't use this moment to advocate for them or at least say something that would be bad on me. That wouldn't be doing my job. And so I was like, well, I think that we need to have more conversations around adding more positions, adding more lines for people to do this work, adding more resources to people to be able to do this work. And so that is a culture change that is getting people to review budgets.

I think one of the most common lines that I hear thrown around in higher ed is that your budget is your mission statement. Like your budget is reflective of what you value, and I would love to just see if we want to be able to retweet 51:00and post about all of these issues that are like we are committed to ending X Y and Z, or we are committed to people getting the help they need.

Sometimes I think that there is a palpable disconnect between bodies who say something like that and the people who are actually doing the work. They are like, "Okay then well we would love to see it too." [Chuckles] I don't know, I am one for radical honesty in moments like this. I just think that if we're not able to be honest about the people who do the work sometimes not feeling that support, I think that that's something that I would love to see in terms of as a right moment for change, right. I think that in this moment where we are just feeling it from a lot of angles that allows us to also have multiple angles of analysis. It is not the fault of one person or one office or one institution or 52:00one thing for why a lot of these issues are coming to a head right now. And so when we can see a multi-faceted kind of issue we can then also give ourselves space for a multi-faceted solution. And so it comes from a lot of people caring in a lot of new ways, and so I think that would be one of the big changes that I would love to see right now.

I would also just love to see a change in how people think that they can be involved with the office. It's not the work of just women to make sure that these issues are worked on. I think sometimes the name of our office allows people to excuse themselves from being involved, so working at the Women's Center that can be a barrier of exclusion. I think a change right now is for more people to be able to see themselves in our work, and I think that's 53:00something that we all are working on every single day, is who are we having conversations with and who are we inviting in to be a part of this work and to be a part of these movements. And I think those are movements that need to be inclusive and inviting of people who have been involved and who haven't been involved and who have the vocabulary and who have never read the book, whatever book that is. There are multiple books, right. It is a time where we are so well positioned for people who have been doing work forever and it's their lives' work, and for people who are saying hmm, seems like for many reasons, it could be privilege, it could be lack of understanding, it could be just blatantly not caring, for them to say hmm, maybe I should be involved or maybe I should care, maybe I should show up to that meeting, or maybe I should know about what the Women's Center is doing.

And I think that is a really cool avenue for change if we are willing to be patient and have grace and be kind, and you know, have those moments with people where we are holding them accountable for maybe hey, historically you haven't really been involved in that way, so do better, but then also like do better with us, right. Like we can do better if we are doing better together. And so I think that is a moment and a change that the University I feel like in some ways is also seeing. We are starting to see the work of advancing people at the school and supporting people at the school that haven't always been invited to the school from the beginning. We are starting to see that as everyone's work, where I think historically it's been here is the office who does this, and they are just a small group of four people on a campus of 35,000, right. Now we're starting to see that, it's like oh no, I have a role in that. I see myself in that, and I think that is a change. And that's not something that I can sit down 55:00and do tomorrow, right, so that's why the change is hard and the end is not clear. But, I think that's the change that matters the most to how people are a part of this community and a part of Hokie Nation or a part of the Women's Center Community of allies, or just a part of a moment.

Anna: Those are very good points, and the first point that I would make that sort of relates to the last thing that Mallory was talking about was also the Women's Center being seen as a space that's accessible and welcoming broadly. So again, the name Women's Center, we continue to believe that given Virginia Tech's history, given Virginia Tech's demographic, given our STEM focus, given a lot of things about our campus structure and culture, there continues to be certainly a need for a space for women as a group, right, to receive services, 56:00to explore issues, to look at issues of equity and leadership and wellness and all that kind of thing. So that said, we also understand that the issues that we deal with and the people that we serve, the issues for the people that we serve don't just impact women, right. So it's a matter of, I don't know what we need to do, we talk about this a lot these days. We need to think about our outreach and our engagement differently, because we want to make sure that folks who need our services and folks who want to engage in our issues and our programs feel like this is a space where they can do it. So thinking intentionally about what changes we need to make as a staff and what things we need to do differently in our outreach and collaboration and the way we do our programming and services, 57:00to make sure we as a Women's Center are inclusive.

The other thing is one of the fundamental concepts in the book, whatever the book is right Mallory?

Mallory: [Laughs] I don't know the title.

Anna: One of the fundamental concepts in that book you were talking about is intersectionality, that we understand that woman is not a monolithic thing. We get that not everybody feels connected because of this identity they share as woman, right. So we have different life experiences based on how being a woman intersects with all sorts of other things, our race, our religion, our socio-economic status, sexual orientation, it goes on and on. So one of the things that Mallory has contributed to in such significant ways and we have had programming folks historically that have contributed in significant ways is those partnerships with other groups that help to really complicate the conversations we're having around women's issues, right. So I want us to 58:00continue to develop those. You know conceptually theoretically we are really good at intersectional thinking. We are really good at having intersectional conversations. And as those manifest in the way we do our services, as those manifest in the way we approach our programming, to continue to strive to demonstrate that we understand that, and to do a better job I think of connecting with people and resonating with whatever we're talking about, resonating with where they come at that issue, if they even come at that issue.

So to continue to understand that you know, yes, we all may identify as women, not that everybody who comes here or works here does, but we may share that identity, but we also have a lot of differences, so how do we complicate our conversations. How do we complicate our understanding of peoples' lived experiences and their needs? Again, as I circle back, to ensure that this does 59:00become and remain a space where people feel like they can access what we have to offer that's really really important to us. And I think we have a responsibility to continue to think about it, to continue to work at it, to continue to seek counsel and advice about it. It's an aspiration and we're not there yet, and I'm proud that we continue to strive in that direction.

Emily: I think those are all the questions that I have. Do you have anything else that you would like to add or talk about?

Anna: Well, I would like to just lift up again that Spring of 2019 is the Women's Center 25th Anniversary, and that feels like a really special milestone of a quarter of a century of the Women's Center at Virginia Tech. And you know the Women's Center was founded by a group of mostly faculty and administrator women, and I think some graduate students.

They were called the Coordinating Council on Women's Concerns. It was chaired by 60:00Ann Kilkelly, an emerita theater professor who we miss seeing day to day. But you know, I wonder when they founded the Women's Center 25 years ago if they wouldn't -- I wonder how they would have envisioned 25 years out. I wonder if they had been in an interview and you had said what do you hope for the future if they would have imagined us having a staff of 9, us having grant funds, us having institutional support, us having developed a network of relationships and partnerships. And so it feels like a moment to pause and recognize our foremothers and to celebrate our accomplishments, and then to start that hard work of thinking about the next 25 years. And that feels like a community conversation, so we look forward to engaging others and imagining what that might be.

Emily: Well thank you so much.